Comments on: Part 2: Characterization – How to Make Your Readers Love ‘em Instead of Leave ‘em http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em Novel Writing, Screenwriting and Storytelling Tips & Fundamentals Sun, 20 May 2012 23:50:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: spinx http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em/comment-page-1#comment-58380 spinx Mon, 26 Sep 2011 19:48:16 +0000 http://storyfix.com/?p=1035#comment-58380 To disagree...........hmm.....agreed. Of course- as if any such subject could be discussed anyways. I have long since realized that people would rather take their opinion into their grave than admit any fault. And of course I respect your opinion- how could I not? It was never about being right to me. Trust me, if it were only about that, I would hardly be here every week, on your page, taking notes and trying to get this whole writing thing sorted out. And no, just to make this clear, I do not want criminals to lead us, atlethes who use drugs, or politicians who put their junk up on twitter either. But you see, as you pointed out, this is where we differ- because none of those things meassure up with adultery to me. (As mentioned, they should clearly get you in prison!) Love, or what different people assume to be love (or have come to associate with love), affairs- for petty reasons, for sex, for whatever sake; changing your partners once a week, ect- I know what pain it can cause people. It is nothing I would agree with, nothing I would tolerate or wish upon anyone- however, all those things listed above remain something I can at least understand. None of them right, but love, and all it´s demons, seem to be that one black void that has everyone confused- it is the one topic where intellect leaves our mind the most, where black and white sepperate for grey, where everything is allowed- chaos. I have seen smarter and better people than Bill Clinton fall victim to it. I have seen more monogamous people commit worse. ------------ I do not need "my" politicians to stand as parade examples of what people should be- wouldn´t mind if they did- but I am very much capable of leading my life the right way without their guidance. That´s where the eurpopean mentality kicks in, in some bits, I guess. We do not really feel that close to our political leaders, we do not watch their personal lifes- as it matters very little to us, as long as they fulfill their duty. --------- Agh....I wrote too much, nonsense most of it- I´m sorry. See, what really just doesn´t sit well with me is nothing but the way the american media tends to treat such personal affairs (apologies, a la Tiger Woods, and the likes). That and nothing else. Not your post or your take on actions reflecting character. All of which were right. ---------- So yeah.....shake hands and all that, right? And trust me, I am way more delighted that you are here. Keep up the good work, stay healthy- and, stay in love. Peace out ;t To disagree………..hmm…..agreed. Of course- as if any such subject could be discussed anyways. I have long since realized that people would rather take their opinion into their grave than admit any fault.

And of course I respect your opinion- how could I not? It was never about being right to me. Trust me, if it were only about that, I would hardly be here every week, on your page, taking notes and trying to get this whole writing thing sorted out.

And no, just to make this clear, I do not want criminals to lead us, atlethes who use drugs, or politicians who put their junk up on twitter either.
But you see, as you pointed out, this is where we differ- because none of those things meassure up with adultery to me. (As mentioned, they should clearly get you in prison!)

Love, or what different people assume to be love (or have come to associate with love), affairs- for petty reasons, for sex, for whatever sake; changing your partners once a week, ect- I know what pain it can cause people.
It is nothing I would agree with, nothing I would tolerate or wish upon anyone- however, all those things listed above remain something I can at least understand.

None of them right, but love, and all it´s demons, seem to be that one black void that has everyone confused- it is the one topic where intellect leaves our mind the most, where black and white sepperate for grey, where everything is allowed- chaos.

I have seen smarter and better people than Bill Clinton fall victim to it. I have seen more monogamous people commit worse.
————
I do not need “my” politicians to stand as parade examples of what people should be- wouldn´t mind if they did- but I am very much capable of leading my life the right way without their guidance.
That´s where the eurpopean mentality kicks in, in some bits, I guess. We do not really feel that close to our political leaders, we do not watch their personal lifes- as it matters very little to us, as long as they fulfill their duty.
———

Agh….I wrote too much, nonsense most of it- I´m sorry. See, what really just doesn´t sit well with me is nothing but the way the american media tends to treat such personal affairs (apologies, a la Tiger Woods, and the likes).

That and nothing else. Not your post or your take on actions reflecting character. All of which were right.
———-
So yeah…..shake hands and all that, right?

And trust me, I am way more delighted that you are here. Keep up the good work, stay healthy- and, stay in love.

Peace out ;t

]]> By: Larry http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em/comment-page-1#comment-54228 Larry Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:12:05 +0000 http://storyfix.com/?p=1035#comment-54228 @Spinx -- I respect your opinion, and it merits reflection. That said, let's agree to disagree. I prefer to hold the leaders of nations to a higher standard. IMO they SHOULD be better than the rest of us, and on all counts, to deserve the position to which we've elected them. This isn't a private company, this is a government, it's a public venue, not a private one. Moral compass is reflected in personal choices as well as political and social choices, anything less is hypocrisy. And I don't want a hypocrit, or a horny old fart, running my country. What's the difference between adultery and prejudice or graft or greed or favoritism based on contributions? Answer: there isn't any. It's all a demonstration of lack of character. Our leaders can be wrong, but they shouldn't be scumbags. (Should an athlete who gets caught betting on their games be allowed to continue to play, just because they're good at their game? Life isn't that simple. A public persona changes expectations and responsibilities, like it or not, because the safety zone of "privacy" goes away.) Do you really want a Senator representing you who has posted his junk on Facebook? I don't think so. Just my opinion. Hope you respect it, as well. Thanks for the back-and-forth, delighted that you're here. L. @Spinx — I respect your opinion, and it merits reflection. That said, let’s agree to disagree. I prefer to hold the leaders of nations to a higher standard. IMO they SHOULD be better than the rest of us, and on all counts, to deserve the position to which we’ve elected them. This isn’t a private company, this is a government, it’s a public venue, not a private one. Moral compass is reflected in personal choices as well as political and social choices, anything less is hypocrisy. And I don’t want a hypocrit, or a horny old fart, running my country. What’s the difference between adultery and prejudice or graft or greed or favoritism based on contributions? Answer: there isn’t any. It’s all a demonstration of lack of character. Our leaders can be wrong, but they shouldn’t be scumbags. (Should an athlete who gets caught betting on their games be allowed to continue to play, just because they’re good at their game? Life isn’t that simple. A public persona changes expectations and responsibilities, like it or not, because the safety zone of “privacy” goes away.)

Do you really want a Senator representing you who has posted his junk on Facebook? I don’t think so.

Just my opinion. Hope you respect it, as well. Thanks for the back-and-forth, delighted that you’re here. L.

]]> By: spinx http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em/comment-page-1#comment-54074 spinx Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:31:29 +0000 http://storyfix.com/?p=1035#comment-54074 WOW- I came to re-read this one more time- certainly not expecting to find this shocker! Didn´t even think that anyone , much less you, would still read this. This is absolutely not an issue of character or action, but of different mentality. It has nothing to do with politics. Yes, a moral compass would indeed be needed, and one in our favour at that, to lead a whole nation, but only in the fields that matter. Loyality to your country, respect for your people, the will to do well. Chosing his next sleepingpartner has little to do with leading a country. And come on now- Hitler? Sadam? Are you serious? There is a reason why their acts are considered a crime againts humans and should get everyone in prison. What is Bill Clintons crime? That he was horny? So what? I doubt that his needs had much influence on his politics- whereas Hitlers and Sadams desires had everything to do with theirs. And to compare this with chidlabuse? Sexual acts on which both parties agree are one thing, forcing yourself on anyone, much less a child, something completely different (or minors, as in Berlusconis case). Again, there is a reason why the latter gets you in jail. Moral compass vs. ability to lead, are indeed separate. We have other great politicians, economics, policeofficers who manage to lead just well, and for years so, and how many of those do you think had affairs in that time as well? Ones the population never found out about? I am sure you too have friends, best friends maybe, with who you have experienced much, good and bad; friends who have helped you through hard times- now answer me, would any of those experiences somehow falter, or suddenly turn less relevant if you were to find out one of those friends had cheated on their wifes? I doubt that you would drop them just like that. And why not then? Because their private affairs are none of your business, and not for the public to judge it. Now, about Bills moral integrity. You make that too easy. Just because you beliefe that there only is one side to it, doesn´t mean that others do so as well. There are always (at least two) more sides to it. Leading a country and leading a family life have very little to do with each other- just because he was willing to betray his wife does not mean that he was willing to betray his country, or his other politic beliefs. His moral integrity towards his family may not have been the best, but his moral integrity towards his job always remained clear of any such misgivings (of course, according to ones own political values). WOW- I came to re-read this one more time- certainly not expecting to find this shocker!

Didn´t even think that anyone , much less you, would still read this.

This is absolutely not an issue of character or action, but of different mentality. It has nothing to do with politics.

Yes, a moral compass would indeed be needed, and one in our favour at that, to lead a whole nation, but only in the fields that matter. Loyality to your country, respect for your people, the will to do well.

Chosing his next sleepingpartner has little to do with leading a country.

And come on now- Hitler? Sadam? Are you serious?

There is a reason why their acts are considered a crime againts humans and should get everyone in prison. What is Bill Clintons crime? That he was horny? So what? I doubt that his needs had much influence on his politics- whereas Hitlers and Sadams desires had everything to do with theirs.

And to compare this with chidlabuse?
Sexual acts on which both parties agree are one thing, forcing yourself on anyone, much less a child, something completely different (or minors, as in Berlusconis case). Again, there is a reason why the latter gets you in jail.

Moral compass vs. ability to lead, are indeed separate. We have other great politicians, economics, policeofficers who manage to lead just well, and for years so, and how many of those do you think had affairs in that time as well? Ones the population never found out about?

I am sure you too have friends, best friends maybe, with who you have experienced much, good and bad; friends who have helped you through hard times- now answer me, would any of those experiences somehow falter, or suddenly turn less relevant if you were to find out one of those friends had cheated on their wifes?

I doubt that you would drop them just like that. And why not then? Because their private affairs are none of your business, and not for the public to judge it.

Now, about Bills moral integrity. You make that too easy. Just because you beliefe that there only is one side to it, doesn´t mean that others do so as well.
There are always (at least two) more sides to it. Leading a country and leading a family life have very little to do with each other- just because he was willing to betray his wife does not mean that he was willing to betray his country, or his other politic beliefs.

His moral integrity towards his family may not have been the best, but his moral integrity towards his job always remained clear of any such misgivings (of course, according to ones own political values).

]]> By: Larry http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em/comment-page-1#comment-53327 Larry Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:07:08 +0000 http://storyfix.com/?p=1035#comment-53327 @Spinx -- you've missed the entire point. Nobody cares what Bill Clinton "does" with his genitals, at least in this context. This is an issue of action defining character and inner complexities, and thus, actions become the pallet of the writer in creating the landscape of a character. This isn't a political value discussion, it's a writer's toolchest discussion. And if you're suggesting that moral compass (and yes, that includes adultery and, in the case of the French, assault with intent to rape) doesn't bear upon leadership qualities, then perhaps it's you that has it wrong (remember a guy named Hitler? Isn't racial prejudice and complete moral depravity an indication of leadership in that example? Read anything about Saddam? Duh...). If, in your fiction, a population elects, say, a known child abuser to office, then it really does say something about the character of that population, as well as the candidate. Your implied argument that they are separate (moral compass vs. ability to lead) are separate is... to quote you... so wrong. @Spinx — you’ve missed the entire point. Nobody cares what Bill Clinton “does” with his genitals, at least in this context. This is an issue of action defining character and inner complexities, and thus, actions become the pallet of the writer in creating the landscape of a character. This isn’t a political value discussion, it’s a writer’s toolchest discussion. And if you’re suggesting that moral compass (and yes, that includes adultery and, in the case of the French, assault with intent to rape) doesn’t bear upon leadership qualities, then perhaps it’s you that has it wrong (remember a guy named Hitler? Isn’t racial prejudice and complete moral depravity an indication of leadership in that example? Read anything about Saddam? Duh…). If, in your fiction, a population elects, say, a known child abuser to office, then it really does say something about the character of that population, as well as the candidate. Your implied argument that they are separate (moral compass vs. ability to lead) are separate is… to quote you… so wrong.

]]> By: spinx http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em/comment-page-1#comment-53310 spinx Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:04:30 +0000 http://storyfix.com/?p=1035#comment-53310 Who cares what the fuck Bill Clinton does with his genitals? Seriously, some things you Americans just have.....so wrong. Who cares what the fuck Bill Clinton does with his genitals?

Seriously, some things you Americans just have…..so wrong.

]]> By: janice http://storyfix.com/part-2-characterization-%e2%80%93-how-to-make-your-readers-love-%e2%80%98em-instead-of-leave-%e2%80%98em/comment-page-1#comment-439 janice Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:18:30 +0000 http://storyfix.com/?p=1035#comment-439 Thanks, Larry. Again, my brain went into automatic search mode, thinking of memorable characters from novels, films and TV series that leapt to mind. (George Baillie, Jack Bauer and most of the cast of the West Wing arrived first...) When I get over the brain fry, I'll sit with my family and a glass of wine and we'll figure out our top ten. I'll then go on and see which of the Nora Roberts' characters from my last dose of 'research' I can actually remember! Thanks, Larry. Again, my brain went into automatic search mode, thinking of memorable characters from novels, films and TV series that leapt to mind. (George Baillie, Jack Bauer and most of the cast of the West Wing arrived first…) When I get over the brain fry, I’ll sit with my family and a glass of wine and we’ll figure out our top ten.

I’ll then go on and see which of the Nora Roberts’ characters from my last dose of ‘research’ I can actually remember!

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