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	<title>Comments on: Shades of Gray: A Somewhat Liberating Spin on Story Structure</title>
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	<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure</link>
	<description>Novel Writing, Screenwriting and Storytelling Tips &#38; Fundamentals</description>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-19388</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 15:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-19388</guid>
		<description>@ J. Nelson -- scary how aligned we are on this.  It&#039;s like you crawled into my head.  I even use the flying analogy a lot here.  Thanks for echoing what we both know to be true.  And thanks for reading the site.  L.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ J. Nelson &#8212; scary how aligned we are on this.  It&#8217;s like you crawled into my head.  I even use the flying analogy a lot here.  Thanks for echoing what we both know to be true.  And thanks for reading the site.  L.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Nelson Leith</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-19365</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Nelson Leith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-19365</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you delay the first plot point past the 25th percentile, then you’ll need several twists and a deepening of the stakes prior to that point.&quot;

Before the plot is revealed, what are the stakes being deepened? This begs the question of how many non-plot-point twists a reader will tolerate before the author runs the risk of having the actual plot point dismissed as another &quot;cry wolf.&quot;  Even a writer who turns his nose up at the idea of structure should beware sabotaging the reader&#039;s trust this way.

I hate to play Devil&#039;s Advocate (okay, I love to play Devil&#039;s Advocate) but whenever I hear about the virtues of violating the &quot;rules&quot; of fiction I remind myself of two things. 

First, that structure isn&#039;t an arbitrary standard imposed as artifice upon the free spirit of fiction.  Human beings are animals with very real cognitive patterns and biases that make a huge difference in how information is received.  It&#039;s not for nothing that story structure exists: they reflect how our narrative instincts are geared to receive stories.

Second, I think of one of the most successful stories of all time, The Lord of the Rings, which has been roundly criticized for (among other things) dragging along too much at the beginning about the details and routines of the Shire, in other words delaying the plot point.  Does LOTR deserve to be held up as a masterpiece of storytelling?  Absolutely.  Could it have been even stronger if a lot of that introductory material had been stashed away in one of Tolkien&#039;s signature appendices? Clearly.

Writers should think of story structure not as a rigid cage stifling our creative autonomy, but like flight engineering that enables us to travel where we otherwise could not.  Sure, there&#039;s more than one way for a vehicle to fly -- we have airplanes, helicopters, blimps -- but all of them work with the rules of aerodynamics.  The human psyche is the atmosphere of the narrative: the better a story harmonizes (mythodynamically?) with its flight environment, the more weight it can carry and the further it can fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you delay the first plot point past the 25th percentile, then you’ll need several twists and a deepening of the stakes prior to that point.&#8221;</p>
<p>Before the plot is revealed, what are the stakes being deepened? This begs the question of how many non-plot-point twists a reader will tolerate before the author runs the risk of having the actual plot point dismissed as another &#8220;cry wolf.&#8221;  Even a writer who turns his nose up at the idea of structure should beware sabotaging the reader&#8217;s trust this way.</p>
<p>I hate to play Devil&#8217;s Advocate (okay, I love to play Devil&#8217;s Advocate) but whenever I hear about the virtues of violating the &#8220;rules&#8221; of fiction I remind myself of two things. </p>
<p>First, that structure isn&#8217;t an arbitrary standard imposed as artifice upon the free spirit of fiction.  Human beings are animals with very real cognitive patterns and biases that make a huge difference in how information is received.  It&#8217;s not for nothing that story structure exists: they reflect how our narrative instincts are geared to receive stories.</p>
<p>Second, I think of one of the most successful stories of all time, The Lord of the Rings, which has been roundly criticized for (among other things) dragging along too much at the beginning about the details and routines of the Shire, in other words delaying the plot point.  Does LOTR deserve to be held up as a masterpiece of storytelling?  Absolutely.  Could it have been even stronger if a lot of that introductory material had been stashed away in one of Tolkien&#8217;s signature appendices? Clearly.</p>
<p>Writers should think of story structure not as a rigid cage stifling our creative autonomy, but like flight engineering that enables us to travel where we otherwise could not.  Sure, there&#8217;s more than one way for a vehicle to fly &#8212; we have airplanes, helicopters, blimps &#8212; but all of them work with the rules of aerodynamics.  The human psyche is the atmosphere of the narrative: the better a story harmonizes (mythodynamically?) with its flight environment, the more weight it can carry and the further it can fly.</p>
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		<title>By: janice &#124; Sharing the Journey</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>janice &#124; Sharing the Journey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-798</guid>
		<description>So, did the widow have to hand over the ring? (I remember being outraged by something similar during Double Jeopardy.) How can you come up with great hooks like that in a &lt;i&gt;blog post&lt;/i&gt; while some of us struggle in our stories?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, did the widow have to hand over the ring? (I remember being outraged by something similar during Double Jeopardy.) How can you come up with great hooks like that in a <i>blog post</i> while some of us struggle in our stories?!</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Burrage</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Burrage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-784</guid>
		<description>I reviewed John Scalzi&#039;s Old Man&#039;s War a while ago, and I felt the same thing. When is the first plot point going to happen? Well, I didn&#039;t think in those exact terms. Until it DID happen, the book was a drag.

It was only when the protagonist had something to fight against/for did I start to care at all. This happened about two thirds of the way into the novel, and the last third was by far the most interesting part for me; it actually had some story!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reviewed John Scalzi&#8217;s Old Man&#8217;s War a while ago, and I felt the same thing. When is the first plot point going to happen? Well, I didn&#8217;t think in those exact terms. Until it DID happen, the book was a drag.</p>
<p>It was only when the protagonist had something to fight against/for did I start to care at all. This happened about two thirds of the way into the novel, and the last third was by far the most interesting part for me; it actually had some story!</p>
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		<title>By: Natalie</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-727</guid>
		<description>OMG this is SOME good revelation! Thanks!!! I always think my story is one with too many layers; thinking it can&#039;t be written well but after reading this bit I am feeling MOST encouraged...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG this is SOME good revelation! Thanks!!! I always think my story is one with too many layers; thinking it can&#8217;t be written well but after reading this bit I am feeling MOST encouraged&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joi</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>Joi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-721</guid>
		<description>I love House! 

I&#039;m always inspired by reality television, actually.  The human dynamic is the most additively fascinating thing on the face of the earth and I never cease to be inspired from a parade of humanity.  Hello, reality television!

Whether it&#039;s The Amazing Race, The Biggest Loser, or Survivor - you can really get inside the human mind.  The things people will do, promise, and become to attain what they want.... crazy!

Great idea for a post.  You&#039;ve given me a lot to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love House! </p>
<p>I&#8217;m always inspired by reality television, actually.  The human dynamic is the most additively fascinating thing on the face of the earth and I never cease to be inspired from a parade of humanity.  Hello, reality television!</p>
<p>Whether it&#8217;s The Amazing Race, The Biggest Loser, or Survivor &#8211; you can really get inside the human mind.  The things people will do, promise, and become to attain what they want&#8230;. crazy!</p>
<p>Great idea for a post.  You&#8217;ve given me a lot to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-701</guid>
		<description>this was a timely post for me.

what i consider my first plot point now appears later than i originally planned, because i&#039;ve had to gut a storyline from the novel in order to keep my word count down to a publishable length.  the result of this is that my first plot point appears around the 33-40% mark.  (with the other plot line, i was looking at a total of 150,000-170,000 words, and that storyline was mostly found at the end of the novel)

i&#039;d been very concerned about this, and am relieved to hear that it is mostly a guideline instead of a hard and fast rule.  i think that i have enough twists and surprises during the set up to keep the reader engaged, and i&#039;ll have to trust my beta readers to let me know if i&#039;m wrong once i get my first revision finished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this was a timely post for me.</p>
<p>what i consider my first plot point now appears later than i originally planned, because i&#8217;ve had to gut a storyline from the novel in order to keep my word count down to a publishable length.  the result of this is that my first plot point appears around the 33-40% mark.  (with the other plot line, i was looking at a total of 150,000-170,000 words, and that storyline was mostly found at the end of the novel)</p>
<p>i&#8217;d been very concerned about this, and am relieved to hear that it is mostly a guideline instead of a hard and fast rule.  i think that i have enough twists and surprises during the set up to keep the reader engaged, and i&#8217;ll have to trust my beta readers to let me know if i&#8217;m wrong once i get my first revision finished.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-699</guid>
		<description>Nathan -- to see this in full glorious obviousness, rent the DVD &quot;Collateral.&quot;  There&#039;s a huge murder scene at about the 15th percentile, and it fools everyone because it looks like just the first plot point (but it&#039;s too early, and not complete enough yet in terms of what a plot point must do).  The actual plot point comes a few scenes later, when Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx are in a taxi, as Cruise explains what Foxx must do next.  THAT&#039;s the plot point, and it&#039;s just a quiet conversation.  It fulfills all the criteria, as it defines the hero&#039;s quest going foward, in context to the stakes, and invests the viewer in what is to come.  

The murder is just part of the Part 1 set-up.  And after the taxi conversation, notice how the next quarter of the story (Part 2) is a &quot;response&quot; to what we learn (what the hero learns) in the actual taxi plot point scene.

A great example of how a story can have many HUGE scenes with high drama, but the plot points remain as fixtures with specific missions. 

By the way, &quot;Collateral&quot; is a great example of virtually everything about story architecture, all four parts and all the milestones, and including character elements, theme and scene construction.  Michael Mann is one of the best directors out there, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan &#8212; to see this in full glorious obviousness, rent the DVD &#8220;Collateral.&#8221;  There&#8217;s a huge murder scene at about the 15th percentile, and it fools everyone because it looks like just the first plot point (but it&#8217;s too early, and not complete enough yet in terms of what a plot point must do).  The actual plot point comes a few scenes later, when Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx are in a taxi, as Cruise explains what Foxx must do next.  THAT&#8217;s the plot point, and it&#8217;s just a quiet conversation.  It fulfills all the criteria, as it defines the hero&#8217;s quest going foward, in context to the stakes, and invests the viewer in what is to come.  </p>
<p>The murder is just part of the Part 1 set-up.  And after the taxi conversation, notice how the next quarter of the story (Part 2) is a &#8220;response&#8221; to what we learn (what the hero learns) in the actual taxi plot point scene.</p>
<p>A great example of how a story can have many HUGE scenes with high drama, but the plot points remain as fixtures with specific missions. </p>
<p>By the way, &#8220;Collateral&#8221; is a great example of virtually everything about story architecture, all four parts and all the milestones, and including character elements, theme and scene construction.  Michael Mann is one of the best directors out there, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Hangen</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Hangen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-698</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve got a remarkable way of explaining this in a context that I can understand. Never thought about it this way, but you are absolutely right. The impact matters much more than the event.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve got a remarkable way of explaining this in a context that I can understand. Never thought about it this way, but you are absolutely right. The impact matters much more than the event.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzannah-Write It Sideways</title>
		<link>http://storyfix.com/shades-of-gray-a-somewhat-liberating-spin-on-story-structure/comment-page-1#comment-697</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzannah-Write It Sideways</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 05:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyfix.com/?p=1230#comment-697</guid>
		<description>Larry,
I read a book this week called &quot;The Dickinson Papers,&quot; which was a humourous and quirky love story. As I was reading, I thought about your take on story structure. The book was more literary than commercial, so it took a bit more license with the overall structure. However, there definitely was one, which I might not have recognized if it weren&#039;t for reading your site. As always, thanks for the insight you provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,<br />
I read a book this week called &#8220;The Dickinson Papers,&#8221; which was a humourous and quirky love story. As I was reading, I thought about your take on story structure. The book was more literary than commercial, so it took a bit more license with the overall structure. However, there definitely was one, which I might not have recognized if it weren&#8217;t for reading your site. As always, thanks for the insight you provide.</p>
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